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Book TV After Words

Salman Khan Education. (2012) 'The One World Schoolhouse Education Reimagined.'

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Us 11, Baker 3, Hawkins 2, Ms. Kennedy 2, Don 1, Theologic 1, Unmeasured 1, Unit 1, Patricia 1, Beckham 1, Salman Khan 1, Thomas Paine 1, Mr. Hernandez 1, Facebook 1, Google 1, Nina Rees 1, Lectures 1, Greece 1, United States 1, Irs 1,
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  CSPAN    Book TV After Words    Salman Khan  Education.  (2012) 'The One  
   World Schoolhouse Education Reimagined.'  

    November 11, 2012
    12:00 - 1:00pm EST  

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around the corner. it was imminent. your wafer opinion stuff ripen. none of this was really true, but it was in our interest for him to say that. oddly enough jefferson related to absorb some of this radical feeling over there in france, and before he left heat set down a plan and told people, thomas paine, well short, number of other abolitionists that when he got back to america he was going to train slaves, settle them on land as sharecroppers in the certainty that they would become good citizens and free people in the united states. but when he got back to the united states things changed. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. coming up next on book tv, after words with guest host nina rees.
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this week salman khan and his book the one world schoolhouse. in it he presents the benefits of online universal education for primary and secondary school students. the former hedge fund analyst also discusses his career change to public educators. >> host: tell us a little bit about your book and the journey that you underwent before you started the academy which let you writing this book. >> well, the book -- well, it is a little bit about that journey but really how that journey kind of informed white the academy has become and how that could inform what classrooms could become more what learning to become, and not in just the kind of high by in the sky kind of way, with this is really happening. it feels like we are at this inflection point it was going on in the classrooms. this whole adventure for me started someone very
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inadvertently. the 2004, i was working as an analyst at a hedge fund at the time. i had just got married, family from new orleans visiting me in boston after my wedding and it turned out one cousin was having trouble, 12 years old. i had trouble believing that. we share a certain amount of dna. and when i asked her about it, it was her mama told me. i'm having trouble with units. yeah, let me to you. i think she that i was bluffing. now, were going to work this out. she went back, got on the phone, we ended up using tools and the internet so we can see each other. they have this open tablet things. and long story short, you know, she went from being a struggling student to catching a with her class and becoming somewhat advanced.
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i joke and became a tagger cousin. i really think she is to be done every take a placement exam. but camino, a sedative during her brother's. fest for two years. word got around free to turn was happening. was tearing tenor 15 family friends, cousins. it was at that point, and affirmed was working for them it was a firm, but my boss, we moved to silicon valley. i was telling a friend about a still photo of my cousins. now is complaining that it was getting hard to scale. i still had a day job. all these teams around the country. he said, well, what you make some tutorials, one youtube. at that that was a silly at the end. cats play piano, not serious for, but i give a shot. a long story short that kind of
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started getting a ton attraction. people started looking at it. also working on this little software tool for my cousin. a committee is to be an institution to help people. so we set up as a not-for-profit , and in 2009 as an it focusing on my day job. >> host: tell me a little bit about the academy. let's start with the big american audacious goals which i just found very big and audacious, the business model that you pasted on. >> yes. so much of the other way around. you know, when i was starting all this, sitting in the mill of silicon valley tonight came from a very for-profit reality. i have friends you're venture-capital lists. we can fund this. it could be several bottom lines, whenever that means, and there was a lot dentation their command is nothing wrong with that, but i was getting all of this emotional reward from these thank you letters the people were sending me in the sense that i was making the simple
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things to my cousin, the first is a thousand calendars thousand, with the students are using around the world, i'd like the stuff to be around a hundred years or 500 years. i don't want this collection of software and conscience and this organization can i don't want to skew from this mission of being able to reach these people. so when i look at other organizations in the universe better able to do that, many, many, hopefully centuries, and stay true to the mission, not for profit where there is no ownership. it's a public charity. and i said to my should set this up as a not-for-profit, not quite understand what that is. armor when i was doing the initial port the irs asks you, what is your mission. a kind of thought about it for every three or four minutes and said well, of three world-class education for anyone anywhere. why not. you know, you never want something we could just say, check, it's done. it was a very delusional
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aspiration. i was operating of a closet to but in so the business model, a not-for-profit, we still have to sustain ourselves. in the way we want to, we always want the learning side of education. we think that is what in powers people. is primarily foundation and philanthropist driven, but we do things -- we think their way to sustain ploy there is licensing content. we are pretty true. >> how many people i use survey right now? >> so the organization itself, 36 people, still relatively small. we have been growing fast.
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you need students. we raised a total of 60 million. as the way you measure unique, delivered 180 million lessons, 700 billion problems have been done on the site. and, you know, students all over the world. pretty much every country in the world, someone has used the academy in some way. 20,000 teachers, as far as we can tell from our data, are using it in there glasses or with their cohorts in some type of weight. so it's kind of crazy. it's a real for where it came from. >> us talk a little bit about how a class for more school can use you, this concept. explain that to our viewers. >> and i will do two things. because of the plaster has somewhat been tied, and it is interesting idea. a forward step, but part of the whole point of this whole book was the committee know, we are
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not necessarily about the split but pushing the envelope further so in a flat model, you know, right now at home you do problems traditionally called homework in the classroom. a lot of times in a traditional classroom, lectures. and the flip, it predates the academy. add these videos that there. teachers are telling me eumenides and video on meiosis our project down motion. i don't have to give that lecture anymore. my students can once it. they can receive without taking, taking a class time, and when they got a class that's when they can either ask me questions , clarifications demand weakened the problems together, so it used to be homework. problems that cannot be done by the classroom. and the advantage there is, the real learning occurs when you do the engagement, when it during the problems that. and i think traditionally students either don't do homework, or have trouble doing homework because no one to help
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them. now they're in the classroom. they have the teacher and their peers which is an underutilized resource. not allowed to help you, but when you help others learn better. and it also gives the teacher a line of how the class is doing. it's hard to know where people are. you might be able to pull them and ask you questions, but it hard. blank faces, but now if you drive problems of a together you can do much more -- you can understand where students are and diagnose them. so that is the flip. what used to be a hallmark in the classroom, what used to be lectures are not home. it makes the class from interactive. students can take lectures at their time and pace. what i focus on a lot in the book is, let's go even further. still, even the flip the sense that all the students are going to cover the same material at the same pace together, and what i talk a lot about is, you know, we have all been indoctrinated in the system. and i'm not talking about, you
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know, a student teacher ratio or white charter or private republic but the system, grouping kids by age based to cover certain subjects us at pace to migrate them based on their variable understanding innkeepers in a forward and we just assume that this was coolest. i go through great lengths to show, no, this is actually a relatively new phenomenon. 200 years old. we inherited it from a country that no longer exists. in fairness to depression and even test, i guess, you know, it was during the industrial revolution, the first time that people seriously thought about how we can educate everybody. before that it was the son of a lord and you would get a gang in a private tutor. in the private tutor was the gold standard. fourteen your pace, differentiating it for you, but
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of a sudden, we want to have mass education. how do we do it in a classical way? well, the industrial revolution. we've taken on an assembly line and we do something to the product and hopefully it the and we have a decent product. they assess the apply the same model the classrooms. the kids are in brackets based on age. i was talking to a friend. the child already knows how the reid, and still is trying to get the talent skynyrd. born october something. and the school said, oh, very bright kid, though we can't. he's too small. and she came back. yeah, he's too small. look. if that's what they were concerned about this a bigger been in my size. so that is the model. and even the flippers and the context of that model. week three recover parabolas, four, systems and equations, and we give students grades.
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we give them of the command that shows that they have a gap in the knowledge. even in the combat in the move to the next. pretty much do you fill your. i advocate strongly, if you take a lecture out of the classroom there is no longer the need for everyone to move together at the same pace. and as soon as you get rid of that assumption you can completely rethink what glass from compete. you can start having everyone learned their own pace, leverage class time. humans are to get. i can't we have to? why do we have a bell ringing saying, stop what you're doing on chemistry. you must now start english. we all know, anyone who has done anything creative, as the best artists of creativity. you have 55 minutes and then you're done. so what we're advocating is move
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to reality with the health of tools so that everyone can go at their own pace, teachers have-support tools that empower them and use costa for interactivity. >> we touched on this a little bit to one but explain why it is that your platform has taken off and is getting so much attention? >> is a question that we are constantly asking ourselves. whatever the secret sauces we don't want to lose somewhere in the process. my best guess why there is this initial wave attraction from two dozen six, it continues to grow is that the first, fortunate that it was just some guy making a first cousin. i think -- >> these views.
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and the big learning is, the first person to make videos on youtube, to think of -- as soon as radio come out tomorrow, will use this step teach the world. patricia class which feels you when you're in a classroom. you're there. the next at and the equation, and you do like that. so the video, it's even harder. what are they writing? i can hear them. and these fell very personal. you're sitting next to me. the other dimension of it is the conversational tone. i think a lot of people, they try to make it very polished to march is not that. they lose that humanity. the next up in the equation. and i think hopefully this is something i try to put into it.
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one of the things that allows me to a kind of thrive in math sciences and eventually even finance was i felt like i had a holistic understanding of things . my basic to release solid. and then this is intuitive. memorizing formulas. they forget it. was this? and so when i try to my give a sense of intuition, draw the connection between things so that when you see this new concept is connected to everything they learned before. and i get a lot of letters. i assume that would have only been appealing to motivate kids from but i get a lot of letters from kids that were traditionally dissing gaze toward the motivated. that's why. no one was planning the why.
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giving me the connection, so hopefully that's why people have been, i guestimate connecting to the content. >> let's talk a little bit about virtual education and offering the types of things, a lot of people are still leery of these reforms. they see it as a mechanism to ultimately geared of teachers in the classroom were reduced class sizes. >> at think that is a super important point. when we learned the last 15 or 20 years, whenever people see virtual, going to replace the physical. barnes and noble verses amazon. and natural contention there. that is the exact opposite of what i think will happen and education. everything we do is not going to replace physical school. i have young kids and i want to go visit the school.
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i would love to given the experience that every student and teacher was to be a part of. even now we're not leveraging the humans. for the most part people are sitting passively. it's hard to the teachers. it's hard to read speak for 60 minutes without getting the connection with the student. and so what we're advocating is leverage tools so you can get information delivery of the way, get some of the problem-solving of the weight. so when people go when they have class time with other human beings, that optimally interactive, and not in the web since but the human sense. class time is our conversation, all peer tutoring and working with the teacher. all doing open in the projects. the irony here is i strongly believe command is not just talking, we're seeing is in classrooms. you can actually use technology to make the class for more human.
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you mention the skepticism. i think there should be. we just ordered 500 ipads our school. integrate into curriculum or leverage it to make it transform what's going on. there usually are a lot of answers. it is good to be skeptical, but the same time there is reason for hope. >> how do you evaluate the impact? had a you know that they have actually worked? >> a lot of times, i meet people, i don't believe. these kind of girl bar hippie type people. and now i think i appreciate what they're saying. grades, you know, normally when you say people don't like greece to my being touchy-feely, not being rigorous, but actually, they're saying grades aren't rigorous enough. they give this feeling of rigor.
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when, somewhat arbitrary. depends on how it's measured. but even more than that, when you give grades, especially if you got a c on an exam, you have obvious weaknesses. and so that should be an assessment. you need to improve on those weaknesses. before we move on, it's common sense to me get your basics down. instead we use great is a value judgment. smart, don, fast, slow. and that is just going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. will we say is, let's make sure everyone masters. rather than having a superficial understanding of how to read and moving on to trigonometry make sure you understand house are deeply and then trigonometry like a lot more sense and be easier to learn. if you master trigonometry and calculus will seem very intuitive. in terms of how we're doing it,
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we are working with schools in famously in los altos which is now using the academy, possibly one of the best of the best school district in the country using the academy for fifth through eighth grade as part -- as one of the tools they use. and there we have formal studies going on to understand exactly how this is impacting students and teachers, both objectively on things like test scores and grades, but also on subjective leads. on top of that we have 3 million problems. i use our students. we have data on our side. and so -- >> on a daily. >> all these other companies are able. we as an education not-for-profit cannot do using analytics, optimizing for engagement, seeing what kind of lending. >> so tell me a little bit.
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you give a great historical overview of how we can to educate students, the way we're educating them. did you always hold these views and know this information before you stumble on the academy award this platform that you created or were these things that you, you know, study after word to make it just so happens that everything flows so beautifully. i was curious as to what came first. >> it has been a combination. i actually think it is more of the latter. obviously all of us has been a lot of time in the system. i think anybody who knew me growing up, they knew that i was always, why is it this way, why is it that way, why can't add to your? and get reprimanded. i don't know. this is out pretty positive attraction. is this question. you get a college. the blessing in this lecture hall, is anything but the happening? of the learning is happening when is a cram session three days before the final. and so there are always these
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ideas. and after working with my cousins, they were motivated, for the most part the students, but they were having huge gaps in knowledge, not learning things intuitively. and so in very pragmatic ways and started building tools. it's really a process of discovery, teachers e-mailing me. we're using it this way in that way. it's a combination of these instincts of, well, how did i learn, out of the people plan? what am i seeing with my cousins to make what a to just telling me? and then as we get more and more traction assertive having people tell me about this stuff. and you about the history before. i heard about this committee of ten. someone told me about that a high-school. but it was interesting. and even the research, the reason the videos are so short, youtube limited me to ten minutes. but then i used to have researchers tell me, there is tired of research that shows,
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actually, dense academic content, people can't pay attention for more than ten to 15 minutes. wow. why are we using class time, this time which human beings with his hour-long lectures, 90 minute lectures. can we get people to interact more. the more i did research the more these basic common sense ideas delta and it is weird when research does is something very not intuitive. it's telling you something very, very, very intuitive. the only hard to grasp thing is that we are indoctrinated into a strange model. >> it all makes sense. tommy about your own education. something, despite the regimen of system that you grew up in, something must've gone right. a teacher, parents who built this sense of the acquisitiveness and it -- or was it -- yes. did you go through a particular type of school the was open tonight during you as an individual and paying attention to your specific needs?
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hard did none of these things -- >> i mean, i would be delusional to follow and sometimes delusional. i think there were probably a bunch of different factors. improbably for getting some. one, i was bust have an older sister who was a very good student. i think that projected, when i was walking to class from the teachers would render my sister. up, you must be -- and i was like in speech therapy. but it was projected. and is actually studies that show that projection has huge implications for your own self-esteem. that was luck. on top of that beckham i went -- i would say it was a public school in jefferson parish. public-school in jefferson parish right of silence. i would say it was the average american public's school, elementary, middle, and as cool. but you know, there were some incredible teachers there. i think in high-school in particular, mr. hernandez,
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ms. kennedy, ms. kennedy was a journalism teacher and i would say that's for a lot of the ideas that glass should not be a lecture. working alongside the teacher. it was a journalism class. we have a creative product, a newspaper work on. she would give us feedback. she was like our senior. i remember those interactions and the experience i got from journalism i still think about when i'm working on the academy. i think early in my school year, this was awful lucky, i got into it -- i don't know what they call it now, these g.t. programs. you have this very structured curriculum for most of the day, but then one day we take you out of a different class from and to these classrooms. and there you go to this class from which is the kind of the storm that ideally everyone should have committees to teachers with a ph.d. in education. remember walking in. and she said, what you want to do. i was like a.
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i was like, i like to draw. she says, well, you should draw more than. she would introduce me to these things, different styles, tools, what else to your interested in? and i was like my like puzzles. she was like, here's some puzzles and she would give me brainteasers. she was mentoring me, and it was self-paced command there were other kids working and interesting things command would conspired. i think we needed that breathing room to have, i wonder if i didn't have that experience early on in life, whether we have had the ability to kind of self direct or have the ability. no, let me solve that problem. that is an interesting thing to tackle. >> along those lines, to you have any advice for parents out there, first graders, second graders? and asking you this because in your book you also highlight how lot of students in southeast asia goes school in order to show off with a no, not necessarily to learn. so i their habits that you think parents can start to put in
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place early on. >> and at think everything should be taken with a grain of salt. i have a three and one year-old. on trying to my one-year-old of a passive fire. >> ipads. >> absolutely right. my sense that, having gone through the system and even observing and working with teachers and schools now, i would say there are couple of dimensions. it is true, asians whether east asia, south asia, there is a culture of school is where you go to show what you have already learned at home. i think that gives the students and advantage of having this buffered. they're learning stuff ahead. and i'm not saying that has to be awake, but it is a way to ensure that the student does not fall behind. as soon as they fall behind all these negatives of perception things and reinforce each other.
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so i would -- all tell you what i would do with my own children : some combination of engaging in wisconsin before it becomes stressful. when you tutored -- i need to catch up, having sam mall he goes on. so exposure to the hideous avows rare and physics. the macy and school they have had some exposure. over schedule them. you have everything there is of value there definitely. a complete a rescheduling. kind of what i had.
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frankly that was a latchkey child. work these odd jobs and kim thomas 67:00. some of it was watching tv, but a lot of it was, i want to build something. and they need that. they need that free space. maybe if they're blowing it all on video games or watching tv, you push them or do something creative with them, but they need that time for creativity. the last thing i would recommend is that the parents themselves engage in learning. the set that example. if your for your 50 years old and learning algebra or cosmology or english lit. >> let's talk about your vision for the audio classroom or the futuristic vision that you outlined here about what the school of tomorrow should look like which is a lifelong learning approach to education. you also talk about the college of tomorrow. i was fascinated by this. let's talk just about schooling.
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your notions of class size, the angioplasty and could potentially have a hundred students in it with four instructors running around and helping students. we talked a little bit about race already, but testing. this is one of those topics that comes up a lot in washington and for the discussions on capitol hill. how would you, you know, describe that vision for us and you also talk about the summer vacation. let's start into this. >> the first dimension, once you remove lecture from class time, and allows it to rethink everything. a lot of this is happening. they're doing these things, these are, they have experiments that all the research in all of the tuition point in that direction, teaching for the most part gasol chair profession. ..
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the tests themselves, you need some aspect of testing. someone should be very skeptical of testing because all tests measure what they test. there's many more facets to a human being than that. the dimensions that, there could be some testing to make sure that they're getting core competency and core skills. the ones unmeasured right now our creativity.
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you can never give someone a creativity score but you can have someone generate a portfolio of work. as an employer we are hiring engineers. when we get these people from top schools in the country, what are you created? that's what engineering is, building things. they haven't created anything because they have been on the treadmill the whole time just trying to finish problem sets. they are very, very smart people. the idea is that students over their careers can show what they have great but it's not like to write a paper, it gets great, gets thrown away. they keep working on the paper. they keep developing on. they have a bunch of papers on policy done that they can show people this is my work. they have a computer program written. they have robots. on top of that, another dimension, this is completely messed in the prussian model so to speak, is as i think in any field the people you want to work with the most are the people who have deep subject
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matter expertise but are also always willing to help others. they have that communication ability to empathize. and in our current system and make everyone very focused on themselves. what are your great? are you going to pass the test? graham for the next exhibit in the model we're describing we are starting to see in a lot of schools let's focus everyone on each other. you go at your own pace, you might be had, that's great. but you also have a chance to reengage with some students who might be having difficulty. there's two things, one come you're going to be helping student but even better, when you explain that, hopefully you develop your ability to explain you will learn the material better and you will learn to communicate. that is measurable. you rate each other. you have people write assessments. he understood his buddies spoke of a fast. you can be thought that aspect. so i will do much transcript of the future, an essay of the future, like actually now, is yeah, you have your test scores.
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your test scores would show competency. they wouldn't be great. i understand algebra. i have renewed i know all chipper a well. here's my writing. i do have a portfolio of your creative work. multiple dimension. and you have reduced in people that you helped saying great person to were quick. really understood the subject matter probably was able to communicate well. those are things that i think anyone would care about more than just escorts. >> host: let's talk a little bit about what happens in this classroom or school in terms of subject. you believe that right now you have to take math. you have to take english, language arts, start science at a certain point in time. do you believe that all these basic should be taught in the schools, and at what point, i mean, another question i want to ask is, do you believe all children can learn unless they have a series disability? and they all progress to the levels that you have progressed to if they simply learn and master and showing interest
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really in the subject matter that they are, that they are studying? specifically, vis-À-vis the stem fields. is it just because they haven't mastered it well and been pushed to understand early on or are there limitations perhaps and how we're going try to get students to learn new subjects? >> guest: on the letters ocean if you as asked me 20 years ago i would've said maybe certain people are predisposed to math and science and other people aren't. that make me feel good because i was one of people make me feel like i was meant to be there. it wasn't locked. but my experience with my cousins, and what we're seeing in schools, schools that are kind of transitioning to the model where all students are learning at their own pace, building the foundation, we are seeing k-5, some kids have raced ahead. those are the gifted kids. centers are falling behind. maybe they need to be
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remediated. traditionally you would separate energy retail kids you're smart and you tell these kids you are not, not as smart. what we are seeing, when you keep them together, they've mentorship from each other and the teacher, many times it's quite hard to predict, it's very hard, some of the students were falling behind and maybe in algebra, and some of them didn't know multiplication. some of them did not know how to add fraction. he given the opportunity to build the foundation and then these kids racing. so the problem wasn't that some cognitive inability to understand algebra. the problems they are sitting in algebra class and for some reason they didn't understand how to multiply or add fraction. you are just feel silly in algebra class and you'll disengage really just to protect your own self-esteem. so i'm actually now more and more convinced that pretty much everyone, you know, barring certain exception, we don't know where congresswoman, we don't
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know but progress far it. we're seeing in these classrooms, we traditionally think motivated kids are maybe 20% kids but essential allow kids to engage in felony counts without being embarrassed easiest 80 or 90% kids start to feel engaged. in terms of the first question about what subject, i think it is an interesting. i talk a little bit about it. the subjects that are taught that are somewhat arbitrary. they were decided in 1892 by a committee of the meaning university who did not know about, this was before the federal reserve existed, the interstate highway access, a knowledge of dna decided, income at age 14 you should learn algebra. at age 15 you should learn geometry. you should learn trigonometry. you should learn physics in your senior year. i love all the subjects. i think they're all fascinating but i think there are obvious questions, should there be more
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statistics. is statistics more valuable? should there be some knowledge of economics? i won't, for society to society at the general idea is at minimum it should be we thought were the last 120 years. there is ground for the world has changed. we should be more about what these subjects are. and even more i think, you alluded to this, should even be divvied up in these silent subjects? these were and doctrine it and so it's hard to break our minds from the. this is the factory model. this is, oh, you're at this machine in the factory so this is what will be poured into the product. now you have the paint applied to you. the niger the chemistry of life. now you move on. for some people it might tip little bit, that's fine. that would be a cheaper product at the end but the reality is, chemistry is halfway in between physics and biology. and physics is halfway between chemistry and pure mathematics.
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and all of them actually have an aspect of philosophy to commit all of them have an aspect of aspects to them. and writing can be critical, logical thinking, across all. you have something like theologic project's across your thing. so i think the reality we are moving to is yes, you will show competency in things but yeah, i understand this domain will so you can go take an exam and redo that exam to show that yes, i still understand the topic, but while you're in school some of the preparation for that particular competency but most of the time will be blending it. where you are not working to pass in a system. you are working to create things. so in the process of creating things weather might be a novel or robot or business, you are integrating all these. anyone who started the business, surely a tech business, there's art design, there's technology, this quantitative thinking, there's writing and, you know, you need to integrate it. that's what matters.
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and so when you break yourself from this assembly line model, in you give yourself the freedom where people can pursue these different types of things. >> host: why not create a khan academy charter school or even a khan academy private school? >> guest: yes. and we go back and forth on it, but i, we are thinking about it. we are thinking about it. i mean, i -- >> host: which country would you. >> guest: i would probably put in mountain view, california, within walking distance. but seriously, i think, it's interesting because, and this shows the emphasis we put. a lot of people in silicon valley say you are at scale already. you are reaching 7 million growing figure doubling every year. you can reach 109 in five years. why are you eating thinking about the fiscal? why are you think about this go school sucks i will say because
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that's the core. i also think you need, you might say why folks from one school that might it was reach 200 kids when you can reach 100 million in one day? and the idea if you can show examples of this, and our schools that have already moved in that direction. a charter school, they're broken down walls. they have multiple teachers teaching classes in this epic environment. if you show examples of this then i think that's what moves the bioforward. >> host: how much would be the tuition? >> guest: the tuition or maybe, you know -- >> host: in new york, 40,000 per child. and it was built without this book and envision. a lot of markets. >> guest: know, the money is fascinated education is, someone asked me recently, have you ever spent to much in education. it's such an important thing. at the same time if you going to spend that much money if you think safely about how you are
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spinning. i met with some officials about this. public level charter, and private schools. regardless of schools i see how much to spend per pupil per year? if you ask a private call someone them point by thousand, 30,000, 40,000 a year. you ask you public school, you know, some stages of low as five, 6000, but most states it's 10, 15,000 in new york city public schools, 80,000. cambridge, 25,000 per year. what's your average class has? they'll usually say some number between 20 and 30. okay, private schools were charging 30,000 a year, 20 students, $600,000 per classroom. it's essentially -- was strictly impacting the students with the teacher, the classrooms and maybe the text about. all i can figure out is maybe there's 100,000, 150,000 being spent. where's the other quarter of nine or $300,000? same thing at any level. why can't we instead use --
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lower -- private school i think is worth 10,000, 10,000 a year, 20 students or 30 students. that's 300,000 i could pay the teacher 150,000 a a lot of people pay lip service. teaching should be on par with doctors and engineers and lawyers. that's nice lip service but if you believe it, pay teachers the same as doctors, engineers and lawyers. that's the best signal that you value. but the money is clearly there. it will have to get cut from all the stuff that is not impacting your students. i don't know but every time i ask two people i do this type of the above calculation. i used to speak to cfos, your making this money, what am i missing? same exact question. 15,000 a year time 30 students is $450,000 a year. a fully loaded cost of the future is less than half of that, plus where is that money going?
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and so i think you can do a very build -- build a very good model for what public schools are spending. >> guest: so talk a little bit about how bill gates came to discover you. i just thought that was so interesting. yeah, what was it like to find out all of a sudden that bill gates was watching your videos and what with remind? >> guest: i still wake up in the morning wondering if that was all a dream. you know, it's gotten traction but in the summer 2101 of our first donors started sending text messages that bill gates is at the federal time the whole audience that uses a psyche thinks it's great called the khan academy. he uses it with his kids in itself, which made me a little nervous. but then, you know, and i did know what to do with the to i reach out to him?
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but then two weeks later they called and said you might of heard bill -- yeah, i heard of that. they said if you frequent like to fly you out and -- time for bill. got to cut my nails, but other than that. my schedule is flexible. i went up. i really articulate, look, a time with many videos i was thinking if we can give them resources. i would drink about a five team and office space at that point. that was the dream. we could build out the software better start doing with my cousin. so students could get practice, get feedback. start building passports for teachers so that they could use it to diagnose students and average class i more effectively. and then him and later google as well, you know, they were strongly interested. >> host: you talk a little bit about how creativity in your
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book, and we talked a little bit about this earlier on, but you think in the advent of all this, not have been, a sense of a couple years ago there were books focus on talent. talent is overrated. the talent code, unit. i've read all of them myself as i have a seven year-old who i'm trying to foster into a talented individual. you think the talent and creativity are things that can be exact, you know, taught to children? >> guest: i'm not sure. and, frankly, and i think frankly i think no one is sure. my sense, through both observation, what's happening is it's not something that is taught but is something that can be untaught. it's not something that, it's not, and it, it can be fostered or suppressed. both talent and creativity. and i think probably all, i think everyone is born with greek unity. there's not a two-year old on
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the planet who, if you introduce a new object into the room, will not walk up to that object the money collected in everywhere, tasty, fila, see whatever they can do with it, there's not a two-year old on the planet, not a five year old, most five-year-olds with engage with it. a new idea, they'll ask questions. then something happens. where they are taught to become or passenger to some degree, they are an environment where questioning is not always cool. they are so overwhelmed with work, whether it's soccer practice our homework that there's no time for them to kind of just think about something. the class is moving on. they can't think, why am i kidding this? they'll have time for that type of stuff. so all of these things fall from this idea of breaking from the model. breaking from this. as soon as you take this out now all of a sudden you can start saying hey, why can't we let -- is a 16 year europe someplace in the country to have some insight
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like maybe cancer can be addressed, maybe this is what cancer is. too bad. the class bell will ring or they have an ap test the next or that exam, i have too much work to do. you know, i quote an admissions officer in the book, talk about she was interviewing a bunch of people who are coming to a very elite college, what are you engaging about, and one student say we don't daydream about anything because it doesn't help us get to college. as tragic for the child and for society. it's those daydreams that lead to actual -- i'll take, the khan academy exist were large degree because my boss out of hedge fund is a very nontraditional for that field had a strong belief in imbalance. so i had time to daydream about the con academy but i had time to my wife was a resident, medical resident so i feel bad sitting in bed watching tv because i was able to think about this, this problem and make resources.
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and i think anyone is capable of doing the. we just have to give them a time in the room to do it. >> host: especially now because it appeared, i don't know if it is in your book, that i heard it from tom friedman. most of the jobs of tomorrow are going to be jobs that are going to be greater, not jobs that currently exist. >> guest: the prussian model started with the industrial revolution and the industrial revolution, we needed probably more educated people than we did in the a grand civilization. in people who could read the directions and have the discipline of december line and all of that. others also a certain passive you have to come into farms is a certain independence of freedom to. also in a factory are doing this over and over again. you know, one can debate whether it was explicitly done, but there was an element of filling that passively and indoctrination so that people could be good workers. but now we are in our reality -- before the pyramid was like
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this. they needed a massive lead. now the pyramid is kind of inverted where we need a lot of creative people. all of the real careers now are created focused and open ended and you need very few, very little physical labor. and in that reality, we are training people for this, while we need the opposite. >> host: so since we are in the since we are in the nation's, do you have any advice for congress or the president? how can they best help bring this vision to life, understanding this? >> guest: it's an interesting question because we do meet with state officials and federal officials and even other countries ministries of education to one thing i don't what happened is, right now it's been a very grassroots ground conducting. word-of-mouth. parents have been telling parents. teachers have been telling teachers. that's good because that way people want to make it work and figure out, they tell us what to make it work better, since you make it top down, i think it
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becomes, it becomes -- no one likes anymore so we wanted to be very grassroots. whenever to people is just tell people. tell people at minimum they have a free to tell people there might be another model that you probably enjoy more. there are ways to reach more students. and on top of that, and i'm serious about this, i think it's, they should set an example. it's become in its duties in a in a society because i'm not good at math. they will say like six grade math, that's math, i don't understand but knowing so i can't read at a six grade level, or i can very big noses at the people say, you. official cibecue of the ceos sit. cibecue to people in the press say that. and i think, that messaging should change and, frankly, the only way to change is if they directly engage with the. it's shocking how many people engage in education policy where they don't know the subject matter themselves. i'm not good at math but this is how we should test math, math teacher. that's great but you yourself should engage in the content,
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get a depth and though the huge said that everything will help with policy. the more they do that they will realize it's a lot less about top down, a lot less about the control. the controls, every integration is more control monkey trick. it might the risk of some of the weaker players but it also handicaps all the rest. and so it kind of gets to this kind of culture of everyone getting a mediocre. what we need to really does go the other way, have to be much more grassroots but what i point out in the book, that's an american thing, where a country that's focus on creativity, where a countries folks of people taking ownership over their lives but our school system is a prussian one, one that is about as heavy. one that is about authority. and everything about this book is let's make our school system more american. >> host: any final thoughts? if you were sitting with president obama, you know, at the white house, aside from
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asking him to use his bully pulpit more, what would you -- >> guest: i would ask them, this is somewhat different commission that we talk about this in the book that i would ask him to make content for us. because i think what's happening right now is the public discourse, it's so destroyed in 32nd sound bites. you can have a chance to go deep on any side of the aisle. right now the main adult learning happens on the 24 hour news. it's in these 30-second sound bite. know and understand the issue and he becomes very emotionally charged. this form factor, this way, the chance for obama to really explain why he makes the decisions he does. may be the surely explained why and get to, and diagram it out and have a quiz afterwards so make sure people aren't retain it. it would fill in the gap. some of our most part their videos are about credit default swaps on health care plan, or the difference, the electoral college. these are gaps in learning. >> host: it was a pleasure
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reading this book but it was nice meeting you. thanks for joining us. >> guest: oh, no, it was a pleasure. >> that was "after words," booktv's signature program in which authors of the latest nonfiction books are interviewed by journalists, public policymakers, legislators and others familiar with him to do. "after words" airs every weekend on booktv at 10 p.m. on saturday, 12 and 9 p.m. on sunday, and 12 a.m. on monday. you can watch "after words" online. go to booktv.org and click on "after words" in the booktv series and topics less on the upper right side of the page. >> booktv is on facebook. like us to interact with booktv guests and viewers. watch videos and get up-to-date information on events. facebook.com/booktv.
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>> it really was scary before we liberated. let's say, baker county. but to have this happen, to have a blogger, i mean, you were only trying to the best that you can for everyone, and that someone take your words to use the equipment that they have today to cut and splice, to make your message appear to be the exact opposite of what it was and it is. is just an unbelievable situation. and it is a way to terrorize someone. because you don't know that you will ever really be able to get the truth out, but i was
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determined, even if i had to tell one person at a time, you know? speak so then it makes me think the whole media kind of energy around this book, for the last time there was this kind of media and was back on his july 2010 when it went down. we're going back to those places who interviewed you who are making those accusations, calling you a racist biggest fear which that happened, how do we go back in the space now that you do have the whole story? >> it feels good to know that, that, first of all that i was able to use that same media in the sense to be able to get the story, the right story out. gosh, i can't explain how great it feels to be able to sit here, and here is the actress really, oh, my goodness, i don't know what you saw and. i was crying a little.
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it's really amazing. i didn't ever think i made the decision years ago that i didn't want people to forget my father and what he meant to us. i had no idea i would be able to tell the story in this way. it feels great. >> what's so beautiful about this book is i feel like it's more than a book. it's a living history. it's like a love letter to choices. and it reminds us that without the feeling, the facts don't convey enough of what history has been. and that is brutal, and the history of african-american struggle for humanity and rights has been, there has been humanity and love and family and choice and possibility and sacrifice. so i wonder if you could go back. i know you raised in a jim crow
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town in baker county in georgia, and you were a total daddy's girl. i know you're trying to get him to let you drive the tractor. the streets on a neighborhood. tell me about that. >> you know, we were in baker county, you hear about, you read about some of the sheriffs of earlier years, but the sheriff in our county wanted to be known as the gator. the trenches actually ruled everything, everyone in the county. you can imagine looking at the western some earlier days, anyone like him, but he was worse than what you've seen in your worst western. but growing up in that, my family lived, my great, great grandparents had come to pick a candidate i don't know whether they came slaves or not but i know the end of their as sharecroppers and with the
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intent on buying plan. and that they did. they bought enough land that the area where i grew up is still today called hawkins down. and lots of families, but it was that we come in, the hawkins lived in one area. the lens and another but we were all one big family and felt we had to help each other. so i was raised up on a farm, and my father, who had five girls, you know, any farmer wants a son. i guess any man wants a son. my mother and father kept having babies, and they were all girls. now, we all had boys nicknames. i was bill. [laughter] spend your nickname is bill? >> yes. >> that is hilarious. >> you know, as faceless